IMC102T-F064 driver debug problem

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User19695
Level 1
Level 1
10 replies posted 5 replies posted First question asked
hi,everyone
Motor phase current non-sinusoidal wave,how to debug?
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12 Replies
Casey
Employee
Employee
50 replies posted 25 replies posted 10 replies posted
jerry_yang wrote:
hi,everyone
Motor phase current non-sinusoidal wave,how to debug?
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Hi Jerry,
What speed are your running? I have sometimes seen at very low speeds the current can look non-sinusoidal but this can still be tuned.
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User19695
Level 1
Level 1
10 replies posted 5 replies posted First question asked
Casey wrote:
Hi Jerry,
What speed are your running? I have sometimes seen at very low speeds the current can look non-sinusoidal but this can still be tuned.


Hi Casey,
Thank you for your reply.
I set the target speed to be 800rpm.The actual speed is between 600rpm and 1000rpm because the speed is unstable.
In the MCEWizard,The parameter setting of the motor is:
Motor Max RPM = 4800rpm;
Minimum Running Speed = 100rpm;
Low Speed Threshold = 100rpm.

Here is a summary of my debugging:
1.I tried to set the values of the SHDelay and PwmGuardBand parameters. SHDelay = 0.5us~2us,PwmGuardBand = 1us~4us.but no effect.
2.I tried to set the values of the Current Regulator Bandwidth parameters. Current Regulator Bandwidth = 600rad/sec~2500rad/sec.but no effect.
3.KpIreg\KpIregD\KxIreg,These three parameters have also been set by me debugging,but no effect.
4.I also doubted whether my current sampling circuit parameters were unreasonable in my custom board, so I tried to calculate the values of these resistors and capacitors.These values of the parameters I have readjusted are as follows:

4420.attach
In leg shunt configuration,each sampling current circuit parameter,Rs=100mR;R10=18K;R13=2K;C21=220pF+100pF(parallel connection).
The capacitance value of their connection is REFU/REFV/REFW = 4.7nF,They have also been debugged for 100nF.
These debugging of the hardware circuit did not bring me good results.

Now I have no better way to debug the current waveform to complete my project, I need your help, looking forward to your reply.

Thanks!
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Casey
Employee
Employee
50 replies posted 25 replies posted 10 replies posted
jerry_yang wrote:
Hi Casey,
Thank you for your reply.
I set the target speed to be 800rpm.The actual speed is between 600rpm and 1000rpm because the speed is unstable.
In the MCEWizard,The parameter setting of the motor is:
Motor Max RPM = 4800rpm;
Minimum Running Speed = 100rpm;
Low Speed Threshold = 100rpm.

Here is a summary of my debugging:
1.I tried to set the values of the SHDelay and PwmGuardBand parameters. SHDelay = 0.5us~2us,PwmGuardBand = 1us~4us.but no effect.
2.I tried to set the values of the Current Regulator Bandwidth parameters. Current Regulator Bandwidth = 600rad/sec~2500rad/sec.but no effect.
3.KpIreg\KpIregD\KxIreg,These three parameters have also been set by me debugging,but no effect.
4.I also doubted whether my current sampling circuit parameters were unreasonable in my custom board, so I tried to calculate the values of these resistors and capacitors.These values of the parameters I have readjusted are as follows:

4420.attach
In leg shunt configuration,each sampling current circuit parameter,Rs=100mR;R10=18K;R13=2K;C21=220pF+100pF(parallel connection).
The capacitance value of their connection is REFU/REFV/REFW = 4.7nF,They have also been debugged for 100nF.
These debugging of the hardware circuit did not bring me good results.

Now I have no better way to debug the current waveform to complete my project, I need your help, looking forward to your reply.

Thanks!


Hi Jerry,
First I'd like to link you to the MCE Software Reference Manual. I am sure you have already viewed but the last section covers motor tuning which I think would be very helpful in your case. When you say changing the values has no effect, are you sure the changes are being executed? After changing the value you need to double click the function to execute. Also, have you viewed the real-time visualized traces in MCEDesigner? This can help debug your parameters and also help you see if current sensing is correct. These can be viewed in the system window.
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User19695
Level 1
Level 1
10 replies posted 5 replies posted First question asked
Casey wrote:
Hi Jerry,
First I'd like to link you to the MCE Software Reference Manual. I am sure you have already viewed but the last section covers motor tuning which I think would be very helpful in your case. When you say changing the values has no effect, are you sure the changes are being executed? After changing the value you need to double click the function to execute. Also, have you viewed the real-time visualized traces in MCEDesigner? This can help debug your parameters and also help you see if current sensing is correct. These can be viewed in the system window.



hi Casey,
I did look carefully at the last section of the reference manual and it really helped me a lot. So far all of my debugging methods have been based on the ideas described in the reference manual.
For example, I used the single shunt current sensing before, but in order to get lower acoustic noise, I changed to the leg shunt current sensing, because it is described in the reference manual:
4422.attach
However, in fact, none of these methods have solved my current confusion. I think I have encountered a very difficult problem, and I even begin to doubt whether the iMotion series can be applied to product projects, or can only be used for learning or research.
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Casey
Employee
Employee
50 replies posted 25 replies posted 10 replies posted
jerry_yang wrote:
hi Casey,
I did look carefully at the last section of the reference manual and it really helped me a lot. So far all of my debugging methods have been based on the ideas described in the reference manual.
For example, I used the single shunt current sensing before, but in order to get lower acoustic noise, I changed to the leg shunt current sensing, because it is described in the reference manual:
4422.attach
However, in fact, none of these methods have solved my current confusion. I think I have encountered a very difficult problem, and I even begin to doubt whether the iMotion series can be applied to product projects, or can only be used for learning or research.


Hi Jerry,
iMotion products and tools are used very frequently in product design. Like mentioned previously, are you sure your changes to the parameters are being executed? Have you viewed the real time visualized traces to help debug and ensure your current sensing is set up properly?
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User19695
Level 1
Level 1
10 replies posted 5 replies posted First question asked
Casey wrote:
Hi Jerry,
iMotion products and tools are used very frequently in product design. Like mentioned previously, are you sure your changes to the parameters are being executed? Have you viewed the real time visualized traces to help debug and ensure your current sensing is set up properly?


hi Casey,
I make sure that the parameter is executed because I use the Read Registers to see if the current running parameter is what I want.
I know how to turn on the real time visualized traces, but I prefer to use an oscilloscope to look at each phase of the current waveform, because I think it is more realistic.

I have now reinstalled the old version of MCE V2.2 and the motor has better current sensing at low speeds.
But I now have a new problem. I can't reach the target speed right now.What parameters should I debug?

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The image above is my current parameter Settings in the MCEWizard.
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Casey
Employee
Employee
50 replies posted 25 replies posted 10 replies posted
jerry_yang wrote:
hi Casey,
I make sure that the parameter is executed because I use the Read Registers to see if the current running parameter is what I want.
I know how to turn on the real time visualized traces, but I prefer to use an oscilloscope to look at each phase of the current waveform, because I think it is more realistic.

I have now reinstalled the old version of MCE V2.2 and the motor has better current sensing at low speeds.
But I now have a new problem. I can't reach the target speed right now.What parameters should I debug?

4424.attach
4425.attach
The image above is my current parameter Settings in the MCEWizard.


Hi Jerry,
This is interesting.. the same parameters were used between MCEV2.2 and V2.3? Are you getting a fault output that is stopping you from reaching target speed?
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Casey
Employee
Employee
50 replies posted 25 replies posted 10 replies posted
Casey wrote:
Hi Jerry,
This is interesting.. the same parameters were used between MCEV2.2 and V2.3? Are you getting a fault output that is stopping you from reaching target speed?



To branch off of this. MCE Designer is only a tool read and write registers, so using the same parameters in v2.2 and 2.3 should produce the same results.
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User19695
Level 1
Level 1
10 replies posted 5 replies posted First question asked
Casey wrote:
To branch off of this. MCE Designer is only a tool read and write registers, so using the same parameters in v2.2 and 2.3 should produce the same results.


hi Casey,
The MCEDesigner V2.2 is the parameter set with the MCEWizard V2.2, and the MCEDesigner V2.3 is the parameter set with the MCEWizard V2.3,These parameters Settings in each version of the MCEWizard are the same except for some new questions in the MCEWizard V2.3.and the corresponding firmware was used.Is the firmware causing the problem?
Indeed, this low speed operation will produce a fault, which is fault Rotor lock fault. However, I managed to disable the fault.
How can this fault be eliminated?And how to achieve the target speed?
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Casey
Employee
Employee
50 replies posted 25 replies posted 10 replies posted
jerry_yang wrote:
hi Casey,
The MCEDesigner V2.2 is the parameter set with the MCEWizard V2.2, and the MCEDesigner V2.3 is the parameter set with the MCEWizard V2.3,These parameters Settings in each version of the MCEWizard are the same except for some new questions in the MCEWizard V2.3.and the corresponding firmware was used.Is the firmware causing the problem?
Indeed, this low speed operation will produce a fault, which is fault Rotor lock fault. However, I managed to disable the fault.
How can this fault be eliminated?And how to achieve the target speed?


Hi Jerry,
Regarding v2.3 and v2.2, I dont believe firmware is the issue... I think there may be a problem with the speed loop tuning. When the speed is unstable the motor current will be oscillating which makes the wave form look non sinusoidal. I would check the waveform in current control mode or voltage mode with v2.3 and see what you get.

So a fault condition is not the reason for why you are not reaching target speed?
The rotor lock fault detects the condition where the motor is not generating enough current to reach the target speed within the specified time limit. This is meant to detect an unexpected load condition, such as a bearing or gear failure, that tops the shaft from turning easily. The fault detection functions are there to automatically shut down the drive in the case of abnormal operating conditions but like you have done they can be disabled in the drive bring up phase since the user is closely monitoring the drive. In the case of rotor lock the unexpected condition is a load that is greater than the torque that the motor can generate at that speed. You can set the Rotor lock time by configuring Rotorlocktime parameter (see screenshot below).
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If you are not experiencing a fault condition the drive may not be reaching the target speed because of invalid motor parameters or because startup and application settings are not matched to the load. The low speed limits (Q13-14) and motoring current limit (Q52) should be set so that the motor has enough torque to match the expected application load. I recommend to start testing with an unloaded motor to confirm that the motor parameters are correct.
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User19695
Level 1
Level 1
10 replies posted 5 replies posted First question asked
Casey wrote:
Hi Jerry,
Regarding v2.3 and v2.2, I dont believe firmware is the issue... I think there may be a problem with the speed loop tuning. When the speed is unstable the motor current will be oscillating which makes the wave form look non sinusoidal. I would check the waveform in current control mode or voltage mode with v2.3 and see what you get.

So a fault condition is not the reason for why you are not reaching target speed?
The rotor lock fault detects the condition where the motor is not generating enough current to reach the target speed within the specified time limit. This is meant to detect an unexpected load condition, such as a bearing or gear failure, that tops the shaft from turning easily. The fault detection functions are there to automatically shut down the drive in the case of abnormal operating conditions but like you have done they can be disabled in the drive bring up phase since the user is closely monitoring the drive. In the case of rotor lock the unexpected condition is a load that is greater than the torque that the motor can generate at that speed. You can set the Rotor lock time by configuring Rotorlocktime parameter (see screenshot below).
4453.attach

If you are not experiencing a fault condition the drive may not be reaching the target speed because of invalid motor parameters or because startup and application settings are not matched to the load. The low speed limits (Q13-14) and motoring current limit (Q52) should be set so that the motor has enough torque to match the expected application load. I recommend to start testing with an unloaded motor to confirm that the motor parameters are correct.
4454.attach
4455.attach


hi casey,
The rotor lock fault will no longer occur even if I set enable detect it.
I think you are right. These questions you mentioned are the key. I have tried before, but Still haven't found the right parameter value to achieve the effect I want.
My debugging is always in the no-load state of the motor.
In addition to not being able to reach the target speed, I found that the current waveform would be better when running under load than when running no-load.
The first picture below shows the current waveform under no-load operation of the motor, while the second picture shows the current waveform under certain load operation.
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Is the current waveform in the second picture better?
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User19695
Level 1
Level 1
10 replies posted 5 replies posted First question asked
The target speed is set to register 6000 as shown below, but the running speed can only be kept below 5000.
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